In most States, unless a DNA test demonstrates within the first year or two of the child’s life that the husband is not the biological father, the husband will be obligated to pay child support until the child reaches adulthood. What do you think of that?
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It is hard to tell who an infant or toddler resembles. Nor may that be a time in the parents’ relationship that mistrust would lead to a DNA test. It may not be until fully grown or adolescence that the child does not appear to be yours. Meanwhile, you could have been alienated by Mom from the child, because the child was never yours to begin with. Given the punitive nature of child support and child support enforcement, and the cheap and easy availability of DNA testing ($500 or less and a few days), DNA testing should be part of every claim for child support at the time the claim for child support is made.
The mother would know who she slept with. The putative father would not necessarily know and should not be duped into years of payments.
Well said!
Any man can be a father but only certain men can be dads. There is a difference. The child knows no difference and the dad must take this into consideration as should any court or judge. The father should be made to pay child support of some sort. Each situation would be different. Child support should be for the child, not for the childs mother or her boyfriend or anyone else. Child support should be based on the childs needs and not based on a parents income. Tough situation no doubt but the child must be the focus, not weather a man is or is not the childs dad.
Tim your claim stretches fatherly responsibility to absurd lengths. essentially, you blame the victim indefinitely, and make cuckoldry a deeper insult than previously possible in society.
that will not end well. a man who has been humiliated by the infidelity of a wife must then be financially enslaved to the fate and needs of her (but NOT his) children for decades?
done often enough, this practice is a recipe for Tragedy. more grotesquely, enough such tragedies would force a change in laws creating that unfortunate situation.
it should never have to come to that. if opinions like yours continue to dominate, it very likely will.
Tim you pay for the kids and I will have the decision to make on my own as well as every other man,
Im sorry, you are dead wrong Tim, what you suggest is simply NOT FAIR…you are right about the childs needs, but by its parents, not the lie perpetrated by the mother…I also believe she should be taken to court and sued for monies already paid by the non-father….give your head a shake, maybe you’ll see the light then…
What about criminal sanctions against any mother who would attempt, or succeeded, in getting child support for a child that is not the purported father’s?
I agree with this 100%. Women are well aware of who they are trapping. And until they are held criminally liable for defrauding the man preported to be the dad, they will continue to siphon money from an innocent victim.
DNA testing should be part of the birthing process.
Really? Why should a man be forced to pay when a woman has been unfaithful. That is just wrong !!!
Once it is determined the man is not the child’s biological father he should not be forced to provide or even see that child other than by his own free will.
All children should be DNA tested at birth.
I believe that the only time a man should have to pay for child support is if he adopts the child, or if he was with the woman and they broke up and he wants to enforce some court ordered bond between the two of them.
If the man is abusive and still wants to continue some sick demented bond with the child the man should not have to pay support and should not have any access to the child in any way shape or form.
Men shouldn’t be required to pay child support at all if they are willing and able to provide for the child on their own and are good fathers. The majority of all child support just goes into the mothers (baby mama’s) pocket anyways.
Well said, W.H., the courts encourage mothers to get pregnant. It is a lucrative income. They kidnap children from caring fathers and extort money from them for the mother to use it on whatever. Mothers have zero accountability throughout the process!
This approach works great for legitimate children and likely will even in cases of duping. It’s been my (limited) experience that fathers with an established relationship with a child will continue to love the child as theirs and ignore the source of the sperm. Their anger is towards the duping mother. What happens though is the courts fragment Parental Rights into elements and distribute them giving Responsibility to one (“duped man” here) and the Privilege and Authority to the “dupster”. For a duped father this is doubly traumatizing and insidious. Instead of distributing the elements, Parental Rights must be distributed between the parents in a ‘time share’ approach, each parent wholly accountable for “their” child during period of possession. Giving men the benefit of fathering the illegitimate but loved child, I suspect most duped men would lovingly provide during their possession period. At the core, we must eliminate this archaic principle to “child support” – it derives from a dark period when men were granted dominion over women by the king of England. Time to reform family law to reflect Equal Rights and our modern life principles.
It says so much about our family court system that this question even has to be asked. Why would any man be required to pay child support to a cheating ex wife for a child that isn’t even his?
My cynical side would say because the mother’s lawyer gets paid from the child support that the non-biological father has to earn.
How about if the fact is found out at a much later date!
It has to be more involved than that. Did he or she suspect there was another sire? Did he contract to nurture the child? Was there a marriage contract or cohabit arrangment? Dose he have an obligation if she finds someone else? What reason is he leaving for?
Assume she files for divorce, leaves with the child, and moves in with the biological father. Should the non-biological father be obligated to pay child support until the child reaches adulthood? That’s the law currently.
Not only is this a perfectly ridiculous question to ask, but what is worse, the women who lied, and put EVERYONE in this situation, gets off Scott-free! Her adulterous affair (which I always thought was illegal) does not even rise to the level of concern! It’s all about the money; fathers money…
Perhaps even worse, the man who actually impregnated this contemptuous lying female (and most likely knew he was sleeping with someone wife) gets off having to pay for the child! The innocent husband is duped! and the court has no problem with that! Just how is this fair???
The entire concept of this question is unbelievable and just one more example of how the completely corrupt court system truly is out to destroy males.
Lets talk about Reproductions rights- men have none when it comes to family court. The court nearly ALWAYS rules in favor of the mother who is welcome to move away from the father who has to pay child support for the next 18 years of his life. Have u ever heard the feminist wanting equality rights in the family court? They only want rights for themselves and don’t care if males suffer as long as they get what they want I.E. power, control, and HIS money. Have a read on Sweden which is run by feminists where men have to sit down when taking a piss and if males don’t take their paternity leave, they don’t get paid. Does this give males a equal rights in this country? At the same time, the divorce rate is the highest in the world at 70% where fathers can’t see their children anymore hence paying a 18 year debt to their ex wives when most of the time the female is the one to destroy the marriage in the first place! Males are 2 afraid to speak out otherwise they are called sexist and slandered. if we don’t wake up soon in our western cultural, us males will become slaves.
“Washing their hands of judgments about conduct…the courts assume that all children should normally live with their mothers, regardless of how the women have behaved.” Yet if a mother has gone off to live with another man, does that not indicate a measure of irresponsibility or instability, not least because by breaking up the family and maybe moving hundreds of miles away from her children’s father she is acting against their best interests?” Melanie Phillips, The Sex-Change Society: Feminised Britain and the Neutered Male (London: Social Market Foundation, 1999), p. 275.
“No matter how faithless, a wife who files for divorce can count on the state as an ally.” Bryce Christensen, “The Strange Politics of Child Support,” Society, vol. 39, no. 1 (November-December 2001), p. 65.
“It is remarkable that such a grossly unjust system has not been noticed. One explanation is that no one knows what happens…until it happens to them – and even then they can’t believe it. Any objections are dismissed as implausible.” Melanie Phillips, The Sex-Change Society: Feminised Britain and the Neutered Male (London: Social Market Foundation, 1999), p. 282.
“We see bizarre cases where abusive and violent mothers are given child custody to ‘save their motherhood. One sees fathers kept from the bedsides of dying children because their presence might upset the mother.” Peter Jensen, “New Laws on Child Custody Should Help Fathers,” Vancouver Sun, 18 December 2002.
Hey women do not open your legs
Why shouldn’t they? There is nothing to lose and only a lifetime of gain.
I was in this situation. I found out over 3 years ago that my twins are not my biological children. When I was married, I was in the service. While I was away, my now ex-wife had an affair with one of my childhood friends.
I found out via Facebook, that my twins are not mine, because this same childhood friend, we were still friends and I was looking at his page, at his children’s pics, only to find that one of his daughters looked identical to my daughter!!!
Got a DNA test, and found that they were not mine. They were 17 years-old when I found out, they were approximately 3 months from their 18th birthday. By the time I would have been able to get a court date, their birthdays would have passed.
Their is currently no laws on the books in WI, that allows a man to be reimbursed if this should happen.
Much is being done, there are some improvements, but this issues is so complex and has so many tentacles that we may never address everything, but I’m appreciative for what is being done, so for those behind us won’t have to endure the pay and suffering of this system to the same degree.
Sir:
First I would like to say what happened to you is awful and second your story is one of many I hear of with Service Members.
I am close to a situation where a child looks just like the bio-mothers ex boyfriend -new husbands family members. The name on the birth certificate is not the same man but bio mother insisted ‘he was the one’.
Many women pick which man can offer more financially for her as she plots to divorce shortly after a child is born and bingo the unsuspecting loving so called Father is screwed.
ALL Child support Claims MUST MUST MUST be first proven with a DNA test. This should be law. But you see, the gravy boat train would be lowered. Child Support is huge money maker for each State why would they want to lower their income per dollar collected.?
I am not an attorney; but, I can see legal ramifications here. If a man’s name is on the birth certificate, he is the LEGAL father regardless of DNA results. Similarly, if a man has adopted a child, he is the legal father. Being the legal father, I can see a woman holding him to a support obligation. Hence, if DNA testing confirms that a man is not the father, the first order of business to legally delete his name from the birth certificate.
Do you know if it is possible to legally delete a non-biological father’s name from a birth certificate? To my knowledge, most States do not allow if the child is older than 18 months.
“…If a man’s name is on the birth certificate, he is the LEGAL father regardless of DNA results”.
Ok but why? Lets explore that shall we? Everyone who draws breath understand this is not even slightly fair under any scenario. Is it just to get at his money? You know it is. And what about the female who lied? Why no consequences for her? After she spends fathers money on her new boyfriend? If you keep drawing on social security that your are no longer entitled to the government makes you pay it back.
Answer intelligently please OK? Emotions and your desire to steal fathers money should have no place in this discussion, you would not be OK if it were the other way around.
I think he was just stating facts(because that is how the legal system works). If you sign the Certification of Parentage or Birth Certificate they court sees you as the father, regardless of what a DNA test says(unless you get a judge with common sense, extremely rare). It’s wrong, but at the moment that’s the law. Crazy huh?
And remember, “Child Support” is just a misnomer. The obligation is never to the child, it is to the mother, who has the legal authority to do with the money as she likes.
There attorneys who contract with mothers to sue for child support, and as part of the contract she agrees to pay the legal expenses with the awarded child support.
Lawyer support is a better term. Ex-wife support is more accurate.
There is a logical hole in the entire thing.
And here, unlike any other civil suit, civil obligations are enforced by the armed might of the state. It is an unholy alliance, and not a civil suit at all.
The names and designations of all these things in the world of “child support” are completely different from what they actually are.
Sounds like a trick question. Any person who is not a biological parent should be free to do what’s in there heart and not be forced to do so. States are always looking to force their agendas on us!
The only time a husband should be equitably estopped from denying his obligation for support of his wife’s child is when he absolutely knew from the start he was not the biological father and frustrated justice to obstruct establishing a different biological parent within 2 years of having relevant facts about paternity issues.
I also believe there should otherwise be no obligation to support a child a woman chooses to have outside of marriage. Parentage should be opt in. Her body , her choice. The courts need to stay out of people’s personal choices to engage in sex without a marriage contract. Get this type of litigation out of the court system and off of the taxpayers back. Only contract law should be issues before a court re parentage of children conceived in marriages. Until there are consequences for women’s sexual choices there can be no equality for the sexes. Are women 2nd class citizens ? If so perhaps they should stop complaining about the special considerations given to them by biased judges to compensate them from their illogical decisions that affect others.
Interesting perspective!
Family Courts are barbarians of the judiciary.
They just don’t care, because they don’t have to.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/fathers/american-family-courts-the-first-amendment-and-violations-of-free-speech/
This is a joke we areveven are discussing this. I am so fed up with stuff that goes on in this country. Especially when it comes to family court. It is a crime what goes on in family court. These women not at all but alot lie in court because they know they can to get whatever they want and they know they will face no consequences if caught. If it is not his child it is insane and disgusting that the man should have to pay. Im disgusted this is even an issue in family court. These people deciding on these family court issues should not have had a job in the first place fire all these pricks
The politics of a corrupt system will ultimately lead to heads rolling, anyone
that keeps this corrupt system functioning status quo should be barred from practicing
Law in any capacity. Thomas Jefferson feared government imposed tyranny and it has
invaded the lives of countless Americans through the Family Court.
This farce of justice must be dismantled and replaced.
OMGosh! I can’t believe this question is even being asked! How absurd to even think ANY man should be “obligated” to pay a women (who is not in anyway even held accountable for the way the money is spent) for a child that is not even his! My hell, it’s totally wrong, a violation of our civil rights as men, and bad enough that we as men already do not have any rights to our “own” children, but then (you are suggesting) we are expected to PAY for sleazy women’s immoral choices as well?? I for one could care less what the “corrupt” law says! I won’t do it!! I am a moral good and honest person.. The world is getting so corrupt, dishonest, immoral, and wicked!! It isn’t hard to “honestly” know and choose what is right and what is wrong! And I for one WILL do what is right, regardless of what corrupt lawyers, judges, politicians, etc. dishonestly do!! Period!!
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DNA should be required against any claim of child support.
Eliminate child support, period, in every situation. If you can’t afford to raise a child, don’t make one.
Dude, are you for real? What about paternity fraud committed exclusively by females are you not understanding here? How can you guard against a female doing that without laws that hold her accountable for her obvious adultery?
The female should be jailed and the child given to adoption (if the duped father does not want it) and guess what? This shit would come to a screeching halt overnight! Could it be any more obvious that the government actually wants it this way?
How in the hell does the women not even get ‘talked to’ about her crime????????
If anybody, after reading this, actually still believes the government has any interest in anything other than fathers money you are either a female, a judge or a lawyer. Maybe all three! but certainly scum of the earth!
The only reason that the courts make fathers pay child support to children that are not their children is to create litigation for lawyers. The illusion that the courts are set up to serve the best interest of the children is just a way to keep unethical lawyers employed so they can legally steal money from innocent citizens in this country. Divorce lawyers have some of the best criminal minds of anyone. The judges, lawyers and special witnesses are like one big gang that legally use the system to steal money. They are the reason that this country is falling apart.
If he is proven by DNA, not to be the father then he should never be obligated to continue to pay support, now if he so chooses to provide support because he has grown close to a child whom he thought was his then that’s his decision and in all justice he should be entitled to all the rights of a biological father. Of course nowadays justice means nor stands for anything in these corrupted, evil, family destructive circuses that we call family court rooms, oh, oops, I’m sorry I mean “equity courts.”
The question is absurd! Of course not. Forcing anyone to pay support for a child that is not theres is clearly fraud and should be criminally prosecuted. Even a judge should be personally liable if this was ordered by them. Upon any doubt or separation of the alleged parents have the OPTION to perform a DNA test – not forcing it at birth which may destory more marriages and situations that could be better for the child. This is still most likely fraud by the mother if she was unfaithful, but it is a choice of the man (hence an implied contract with the woman). That contract evaporates, as almost everything should upon divorce.
I am surprised more judges have not been shot or had their families shot (as has happened in Chicago and Las Vegas) when this is done to a man. It is enough to understand why he would snap, especially in states with ridiculously high child “support” like Massachusetts (>40% of income for one child after taxes). This is simply a form of slavery of a man, as is alimony. When the marriage disolves both parents should be responsbile for themselves and 50% of the childs basic needs (food, clothing and shelter only). Adding any luxuries destroys the quid pro quo of the parent child relationship and forces the parents to fight in court.
It is really quite simple, as the moive explains is done in other countries. Each person (no matter what their plumbing) is responsible for 50%. That is true equality ladies, not a one-way deal. Any support over basic needs (i.e. private school, trips, any luxury) must be a choice of each parent and negotiated on a case by case basis. Both parents are equally responsible for that child, no matter what their income. They will/may have changing circumstances and relaitionship with that child. In fact each must be given the option to spend more time with the child to the 50-50 level which is better for the child than more income in a broken family (fact based on research).
When the quid rpo quo of any relationship is forced by government (clearly against eh constitution and right to contract with a spouse) the relationshiop is destroyed. How long would you continue to go to work if the government ordered the employeer to pay you even if you never showed up? The relationship is destroyed, eventually. It is a relationship where power corrupts becuase the ordered person has no power any more. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. There is no better example of this than the U.S. “Family” court judges.
That is what government does with family relationships (for its own benefit in the form of federal kickbacks on child support via Title IV-D and $50+ billion in legal fees). Government is destroying the family and most relationships with parents by the current divorce system. See the proof here:
http://fathersunite.org/statistics_on_fatherlessnes.html
If people had choices, not unbalanced and unreasonable orders, they would maintain these relationships as best they could. Any relationship has quid pro quo. Take that away and the relationship is one-sided and destroyed. That is human nature to pursue what is best for them. WHy let dad see the kids when easy manipulation of children and courts can force him out and I still get all that money.
Effectively the institution of marriage has now been destroyed by government because divorce penalizes men too much to be worth getting married EVER! Paying for someone else’s kid! Seriously??!! Asking the question is stupid, absurb, crazy! Yet judges are ordering this to maximize child support and their own pay (hidden in layers of state and federal funding). Image a woman being ask to pay for another woman’s child? It is just as silly and sounds silly too. Same thing.
It would be so simple to mandate a test for paternity for every child born in a country which mandates child support. Then the father could choose.
The man should not be obligated by a court. However, if possible he should support the child, any child. It should be out of love and not legal compulsion. I was being used by a woman who wanted to get pregnant and blame the pregnancy on a rich doctor. Thank God I didn’t knock her up, and I learned not to be seduced so easily.
While I don’t think the man should be obligated to pay child support for a child that is not his, if he has accepted the child as his own and been a father to that child I think he has a moral obligation to the child. I have seen this situation in my own family and when the “non-biological” father walked away from her, it was devastating. There is more than legality involved here.
So the child is ‘worth’ more than a duped father, is that it? No mater HOW much he is hurt, no matter HOW much he pays, no matter what the circumstances are, is that right?
***NEWS FLASH***
The ‘non-biological father would never even have had the opportunity to ‘walk-away’ had the female owned up to her crime and held accountable!
Why can’t you people understand this and where is your consternation for her, the real villain here???????
Since there is ZERO consequences for the female when she does this crime, what prevents others from getting away with it?
Mike:
It is socialist thinking that leads to these non-sequiturs.
They believe you have can have an obligation imposed upon you, irrespective of whether you agreed to it, were fraudulently put into it, were lied to, or whatever.
Other people’s lives mean more to them than yours, and whether you are put into involuntary servitude or not, you must perform and earn for others.
And worse, even the fraudsters and dupers who did it to you, should not be liable for their actions.
You really have to wonder what kind of a world they live in their mind, where they think that is all ok and good.
The fact is that women who dupe a man into being responsible for another man’s child need to own up to their lying, manipulating, cheating ways. You women want equal rights, but not equal responsibility. I think there are more women that are lying, cheating, no good manipulators than there are men, period! When they’re unhappy with their choice, they just bad mouth the guy and everyone believes them. I’m not gay, but after being married, I hate women!
for the state to knowingly force a man to support a child that has been proven to not be his ,is little more than a form of involuntary servitude..its is shameless ,immoral and unjust
Shouldn’t even be a question that needs answering. If not the biological father, no obligation unless he adopted the child. I have an ex husband that was going to adopt my daughter but when we were already having problems in our marriage I said forget the adoption because Iu didn’t think my husband (doon to be possible ex) should be forced by the courts to pay child support. My ex continued raising my daughter as his own with our son, and was and continues to love her as his own. He wasn’t forced to provide for her by the corrupt courts. We have a wonderful friendship to this day and she is now 27 years old. He was always there for her, loved her as his own, and helped her financially when he chose to from his heart, not from a judges decision. We have always shared holidays and parenting time …always. Yes I know this is not the norm, but it’s the way it should be… A CHOICE, if not your biological child. I’m thankful.
it is truly a sad day when all of this is being discussed. We are so overrun with regulations and idiots trying new and creative ways to become revenue generators for the state. All it takes is one look at Title IV-D and you will realize that the states, courts, or any other corrupt degenerate in the legal field cares about is keeping their cronies in office to further their business interests. Title IV-D pays almost dollar for dollar to the state of an awarded child support order. This is the most corrupt government activity next to the white house.
I am in agreement that it does not take thousands of dollars for a child to be raised per month. I am all for a fair child support. But, as long as there is any flexibility in the law that allows the corrupt political judges and their flunkies to “Manipulate” the numbers to get more money for their budgets, this will always be corrupt.
Set a flat child support, take away state incentives for child support, and allow state incentives for enforcing the visitation, and allowing a child to have both parents. When they place the child ahead of the dollar, everyone wins. Especially the child!
If there is an instance that a mother is caught lying about paternity, she should lose custody immediately, lose all rights to make decisions, etc. The same that goes with all of the “Victim” single mothers out there! Give me a break, all 99.99% of them ever wanted was to get knocked up, leave, collect child support, and lay on her lazy ass with a free ride! Looks like socialism is here….. And the redistrobution of wealth is coming from the fathers that do not have the wealth to spread around!
Paternity tests should be mandatory at birth, and women should not have the right to say no to that. The only reason the law would allow it is because they get a percentage of that high award there gonna order for child support.
Why can,t these posts be edited?
CleJons, since Divorce Corp does not require you to set up a user account in order to post comments, there is no way for you to edit a comment once you submit it. You can, however, submit a new comment making any edits you would like.
I thought DNA testing is normally done BEFORE child support is ordered.
Courts don’t just “presume” someone to be the father if they are denying it or have doubts.
I think Paternity test shouldbe done at birth even if a coupleis married. Dicorce ratte is 52% or something and higher for 2nd marriages. It is inthe best interestofthe child to know who their biological parent is. If is not husband/boyfriend the mother can begin the processof findingthe biological father when the child is an infant instead of years later.